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ITIL :: View topic - ITIL & Project Management
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ITIL & Project Management
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AdamMurphy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: ITIL & Project Management Reply with quote

Hi,

I am interested to hear your views on the cross over of ITIL & Project management. Over the last year, more and more PMI and PRINCE2 certified project managers are taking ITIL. Is this true in the reverse, with ITIL qualified individuals now venturing into project managemnt?

THanks

Adam
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not see a cross over between ITIL and Project management

I see project management feed into / from specific ITIL processes

Specifically

Into ITIL processes

Change, Config & release, SLM

out from itil processes

capacity
financial
continuity


PM is all about delivering something. It needs to interface with Change / release / config to bring work into the live or controlled environment.

SLM would work with PM to define what is the SLA, OLAs, UC etc and feed to the other processes

capacity would generate new projects or change the scope of such
financial mo' money // mo' money

continuty - developing the continuty environment is a project in itself
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, they are two separate but complimentary skill sets. The reason why people are doing both is because that's where the perceived skills gap is in the sector.

Don't get hung up on combining them.

UJ
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UJ

I dont see myself complimenting any Project manager nor do I expect any compliments from PMs.

Well I do get a reaction from PMs who can not follow the concepts in PM (PRINCE2 or PMP)
PM:
'WTF do you mean I cant take down the network this weekend to install this software. I told the <insert name drop or role drop - senior level> that this project would be done on time and budget.'
PM:
I need the following servers installed on <date> and connected to the intranet on the same day. .... what do you mean.. 2 week turn around for installation alone ?

PM: I dont care that the b/w for this link is already max'd out. The request was for a 2 Mb link so they get a 2 MB link. If they need an upgrade that another Project and PM
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John Hardesty
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah John, most PMs believe a project is ready to close once they've thrown the flaming server over the fence to the support guys. "It's now live isn't it?"
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m_croon
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: ITIL & Project Management Reply with quote

AdamMurphy wrote:
Hi,

I am interested to hear your views on the cross over of ITIL & Project management. Over the last year, more and more PMI and PRINCE2 certified project managers are taking ITIL. Is this true in the reverse, with ITIL qualified individuals now venturing into project managemnt?

THanks

Adam

Hi Adam,

In the Netherlands, it is quite common for a lot of people to have qualifications in both. Myself, I have qualifications in ITIL, MOF, ISO20K, ASL, BiSL (on one hand), and Prince2 and MSP on the other. I feel that it realy increases my opportunities to do interesting jobs.

Regards,

Michiel
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MSP
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Joined: Aug 12, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: ITIL & Project Management Reply with quote

Guys...Here's my throw on things...

Does a carpenter become a better carpenter if he has electrician skills? No, but it can expand his remit and improve his prosperity to the market, because NOW, his customer doesn't need one carpenter and one electrician.

An ITIL manager does not become a better ITIL manager with project management experience. On the same note, A Project Manager does not become a better Project Manager with ITIL experience.

However, when combined they two can form a powerful combination. For example, you may be a Project Manager assigned to implement a service desk or better still an ITIL aligned environment in a service centre. Your understanding and experience as a Project Manager who's able to relate to an ITIL consultant now puts you in a very good position.

I have been working in an ITIL discipline for a couple of years or so now, and when my "new" line manager found out I'd been on a Prince2 course....he was like..."Who the hell let you do that?".

Well the answer...I wanted to improve my prospects...and 6 months later I left the business..... Twisted Evil
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fair points MSP.

Personally I'd hate to be a project manager. Too painful. I've made a career of being an expert on it but without doing it very often.

UJ
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I see with having the certification for Project management is
when I as the Change manager have a useless git as a project manager - professing to be 'skilled' in PM

screwing up majorly

usually I just use my vast knowledge about IT in general or changes / projects in general before ....

If I have the PRINCE2 or PMP certification.. I am afraid I will be more pedantic, anal, demanding and obstinate about implemenations etc etc etc.. in other words... me but with PRINCE2
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Badly run projects are the bane of Change Managers. I'll say this in a very loose sense, CM is the 'contact point' with the IT environments. Often poor changes are bred right back up the chain in the project planning.

So it IS important to have a solid and consistent PM process - with assurance - to make CM life easier.
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JoePearson
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
If I have the PRINCE2 or PMP certification.. I am afraid I will be more pedantic, anal, demanding and obstinate about implemenations etc etc etc.. in other words... me but with PRINCE2


There ought to be an official "Grumpy Old Git" qualification.

Aside: some years ago, and in another company, I was one of four "grumpy old men" supporting (in the grumpiest possible way) sales and engineers. We got an office ... but we should have got certificates too.
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a qualification for GoG.

There is of course an exam which requires a non GoG to administer.

The problem is that the pay for the poor sod to administer the exam does not include any abuse fees - which we GoGs will heap on the poor sod


because we are Grumpy Old Gits
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John Hardesty
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JoePearson
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Location: South Africa

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the mock exam...
Quote:
1. Which of the following is not an attribute of a GOG:
o It depends
o Did you even try searching?
o Why do I keep having to answer ambiguous questions like this?
o If somebody asks me this one more time...
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 1884
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to disrupt this thread of consciousness stuff.

I rather take the view that all managers in It service roles should be competent in project management.

BUT I doubt if anyone ever became competent by attending the Prince2 course.

AND if they are serious about being a service manager, they should avoid the PM label like the plague.

Now, back on stream:

When I grow up I want to be a GoG ...
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think taking the PRINCE2 / PMP courses or exams make some one a good PM

How ever, it gives them a process to fall back on

A good PM is to me...

one that plans their work
considers the implementations and impacts on others
asks frigging questions of operations

.....grin.....
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John Hardesty
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