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ITIL :: View topic - did any1 try the p4s for Ex0-100?
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did any1 try the p4s for Ex0-100?

 
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thechosenone69
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Joined: Jun 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:10 pm    Post subject: did any1 try the p4s for Ex0-100? Reply with quote

Hi,

I am in a bit awkward situation here. The institute im teaching ITILF at givex there students a 100% pass guaranty, basically this is a sales technique where they promise the students that if they fail the main Exam they institute will pay for the reset. They had been doing that for all the courses like MCSE CCNA etc.. Now they want to apply it for ITIL, so I was wondering if anyone had taken the pass 4 sure exams and if it was any good before giving it to students.

Thanks,

A
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big question is....

Is the Official Certification EXIB/ISEB/ who ever owns ITIL now's exam or is this a training company exam that is prep for the official exam
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John Hardesty
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DML
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Joined: Nov 23, 2008
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chosenone,

I am not sure that I understand - why are you in an awkward situation?

Many ITIL training providers guarantee 100% pass (free re-sits until you get through). Why does this put you in an awkward position?

Oh - another thing that confuses me. I see from another post that you are not yet a fully accredited trainer - so how come you are working for an Accredited Training Organisation (assuming they are an ATO) giving ITIL Foundation courses?
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DML
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chosenone,

Sorry - second part of my post was wrong - confusing you with somebody else - stiull confused about the first bit though.
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thechosenone69
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Problem DML,

It is not an accredited center and I am not an accredited trainer either. But I eat, breath, sleep, Train ITIL Very Happy

The problem here is that I should provide the Pass 4 sure for students to practice on it once the course is over. Unfortunately with this method students memorize the questions and answers and go to the exam, since it worked for them with previous MCSE Exams that they took with this Center.

For me I’ve done my job and covered everything in this course. I'm just checking on the p4s exam to cover my back against the institute/center policy.

Many Thanks,

A
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UKVIKING
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the training center is not a trainer center but a cheating center

cheating in that the student dont learn the material

but merely learn how to pass the exam.

If you are working for them, does that not tar you with that same brush

while you state that you 'But I eat, breath, sleep, Train ITIL '; giving a GUARENTEE that you sign off on that the student will pass

makes a mockery of the concept of training - because the students are not learn ITIL. but merely how to pass the test

How does that make you a trainer of ITIL ?

Granted, I am harsh but these kinds of companys that guarentee exam passage render the certification programs for various technical skill program not worth the paper they are printed on
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UKVIKING
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Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thechosenone69,

I am not trying to tar you or you doing your job

It is just when I see companys say that they guarenettee that you will pass it could mean 1 of 2 reason

1 - they take the training course a second time. This is done at Microsoft certfieid training course. But only twice.

This method helps re-inforce the material

2 - the company teachs instead to pass the exam vice know the material.

I have issues with with #2.

Granted, I use the Exam Cram books to help me when I took my MCSE exams; I knew the material but needed test questions to help
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DML
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Joined: Nov 23, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chosenone,

I think I understand – you are worried more about the fact that you are simply teaching the students to pass the exam rather than simply understanding the subject.

Well, it is very laudable that you are concerned about this, but here are a couple of things to consider:

First – the great majority of students do not actually care about learning the subject, all they care about is getting the certification. So, if you are helping to do this you are providing a real service to them. Yes, in an ideal world everybody would care deeply about truly understanding ITIL…but...this is not an ideal world and you have to be realistic. The fact that your training centre seems to sell itself on 100% pass guarantees, would suggest that the students who would be really attracted to it are those more interested in the certification than learning the actual subject (and there is actually nothing wrong with that).

Second – nowadays, especially with the absurd v3 Foundation syllabus, learning and understanding ITIL seems to be very secondary to simply memorising lists and terms. This would appear to be the view of the examination board, so why fight it? Go with the flow and just teach the examination to your students.

You are doing nothing wrong - you are only working with the market forces, and providing what would seem to be a popular service.
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DML

Unfortunately, it is quite true that HR in companys merely want people with certification

Certifications are well and good when there is a direct link to the ability to do the work - ie knowledge and experience

Certification that are merely check boxes on a HR form and have no bearing on whether some one has knowledge and experience

Certification that can be gained by merely being able to beat the statistics cheat the holder, the issuer and the company that relies on the certification as confirmation

However, this is a reality throught the world.

Thechosenone69, you are between the devil and the deep blue sea on this

You should do your best to teach the material and you should be professional enough to be pragmatic and be honest with your students

I would phrase it this way

'I will teach you about ITIL. This course is an aid to help you pass the exam. If you are really interested in ITIL, this course is the beginning of a journey. If you merely want enough information to pass the exam, this course shall provide the information to do so.
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thechosenone69
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Some of you might not understand the situation here. As DML said some of those students are taking this course just for the certification not to learn ITIL. Now if those are the policies of the training center/ cheating center as UK viking named it but it pays off their way of marketing seems to work, I am not happy about it but I am still teaching to who ever is interested to learn not just to pass.

The reason i am worried about this, is that there are many students that doesn’t attend the class, they just attend the exam practice for certification (Pass 4 sure) and that’s how they got used to it from previous certification. Anyway there are still students who are there to learn ITIL and have passed p4s exam with really high scores from the first time.

I also offered a make up class for those who missed it and they still don’t show up, as you said they are just collecting certificates, one introduces himself to me and he has over 12 certification and his knowledge is crap. I am not happy on how this training center markets this course, but I am doing my Job as an ITIL trainer and applying their policies at the end of the day. The policy says that there is a pass guaranty; the only way to achieve this for students that doesn’t attend is giving them the p4s exams, so I am just covering my back here by making sure that I am providing the correct p4s.


Kind Regards,

A
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3307
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you are stuck between the rock and perverbial hardplace

My advice -

do your best to try to teach those who want to learn. Help these
Do not give recommendations to those who merely collect certificates

and for your self

seek employment (if possible) in an official training company and give official course

as an addenda

adjust your cv a bit so it does not say giving official itil course work at unofficial place...

liz and the other trainers probably have comments they may make

one last question

where in the world are you / region is good enough
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John Hardesty
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thechosenone69
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice UK,

I am based in Jordan, but I also work for a British IT company located in London, so I am trying to settle in the U.K at the moment.

Regards,

A
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