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ITIL :: View topic - SLM Sample Report Needed
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SLM Sample Report Needed
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UrgentJensen
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a weird perception on this forum that you should feel obliged to help.

It's a forum, you say your piece and that doesn't have to be helpful. As it happens being 'unhelpful' usually tries to stimulate the lazy person towards thinking/acting for themselves.

I suspect most people have worked hard for their careers and experience so why should you just hand it over to someone anonynmous and lazy?

At best 'on demand' answers dull the mind of the next generation.

UJ
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had a template worth putting my name to I would gladly give him a copy. If he wants to leave his email address I will help him to put one together.

Everyone has to start somewhere and its the point where you're sat staring at a blank page that is the most difficult part. We all prosper through shared knowledge and products particularly in the IT world. This forum is based on technology available as freeware.

You seem to take particular glee at flaming people for asking for help. I don't deny that you have probably helped people along the way but I don't see why you can't just turn the other cheek if you don't think someone is worthy of help.

I have said much of this before so I won't labour the point other than to say that fora like these are for sharing knowledge, opinions and expertise and the more sharing the more popular they become. If we savage everybody who needs help then you will end up talking to yourself.
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrgentJensen wrote:
There's a weird perception on this forum that you should feel obliged to help.

It's a forum, you say your piece and that doesn't have to be helpful. As it happens being 'unhelpful' usually tries to stimulate the lazy person towards thinking/acting for themselves.

I suspect most people have worked hard for their careers and experience so why should you just hand it over to someone anonynmous and lazy?

At best 'on demand' answers dull the mind of the next generation.

UJ



A huge assumption there that people who don't have your experience but need help are lazy. Would it hurt you to refrain from being the thought police and simply don't reply to people you don't deem worthy of help?

What is the basis for your assertion that being unhelpful stimulates people to think/act for themselves?

There is such a thing as just not knowing where to start.
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3298
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris

I abhor people who; instead of engaging brain and trying to do something or attempting to do so and then asking for help / assistance - which I will gladly help; merely expect that I do their initial work for them.

I had no issue Boris helping that person - studentBE in the other forum.
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
Boris

I abhor people who; instead of engaging brain and trying to do something or attempting to do so and then asking for help / assistance - which I will gladly help; merely expect that I do their initial work for them.

I had no issue Boris helping that person - studentBE in the other forum.



The guy started off being quite polite, pandering to the egos of the clever ITIL folk on here and he explained that he had tried to find a template. Even if you don't feel any obligation to give him chapter and verse a simple nudge in the right direction would have sorted him out.
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asrilrm
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Joined: Oct 07, 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Jakarta, INA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris,

You need to understand there are more than just helping, like giving fish or fishing rod.
Viking's first reply - asking if Ala has attended ITIL course was quite valid but Ala didn't answer.
Why I say it was valid?
Because I've experienced handing a template to a friend who didn't have any ITIL background and what happened next was quite annoying.
He started asking further questions like "could you tell me why you put this here?", "what's that for?"

But my main concern was the way Ala asked (by removing confidential data and amending the template)

I hope I'm clear enough.
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asrilrm wrote:
Boris,

You need to understand there are more than just helping, like giving fish or fishing rod.
Viking's first reply - asking if Ala has attended ITIL course was quite valid but Ala didn't answer.
Why I say it was valid?
Because I've experienced handing a template to a friend who didn't have any ITIL background and what happened next was quite annoying.
He started asking further questions like "could you tell me why you put this here?", "what's that for?"

But my main concern was the way Ala asked (by removing confidential data and amending the template)

I hope I'm clear enough.



Hmmm....I think I have a very good understanding.

If I was in Ala's position and needed to do something quickly then going on an ITIL course is really not practical. The simple sharing of a few words of advice would suffice. What happened is Ala was 'flamed' and he responded in kind...........I didn't like his tone any more than the tone of some of the people who responded. However he started off by explaining that we was wet behind the ears and needed some help but instead he was patronised........and we get that quite often on these fora.

If you can't see that there is fault on all sides then you must be in denial
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UrgentJensen
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asil,

Fish/fishing rod - good description.

Most of the templates people need can be found on a search engine, so what value-add is this site if it's just a prescription service.

UJ
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
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Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrgentJensen wrote:
Asil,

Fish/fishing rod - good description.

Most of the templates people need can be found on a search engine, so what value-add is this site if it's just a prescription service.

UJ


Exactly....none.

Its of no good use, either to those of us who genuinely are lucky enough to have a vast amount of experience or to those of us with little or no experience.....so thanks for the input.

I don't ask tramps for fashion advice.
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3298
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boris

So you leave paris hilton, katie price and the Z list girls alone then ?

or are you talking about the beverage challenged types that sit outside a bar ?

....wait I resemble that one

the latter not the former

And BorisBear... I do take your point though.

I do try to be helpful ... but this one smelled to me

1 - congolmerate
1 - many business
1 - cant find a SLM report / google

Why could he (?) not find one within his company ..if it is a congolmerate with 100+ IT users and many businesses..... shirley some one else would have written / produced /developed a SLM report

And the ITIL question were valid because the RED book has a SLM report in the annex
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
Boris

So you leave paris hilton, katie price and the Z list girls alone then ?

or are you talking about the beverage challenged types that sit outside a bar ?

....wait I resemble that one

the latter not the former

And BorisBear... I do take your point though.

I do try to be helpful ... but this one smelled to me

1 - congolmerate
1 - many business
1 - cant find a SLM report / google

Why could he (?) not find one within his company ..if it is a congolmerate with 100+ IT users and many businesses..... shirley some one else would have written / produced /developed a SLM report

And the ITIL question were valid because the RED book has a SLM report in the annex



You know you make some fair points in there and I don't wholly disagree.
I remember when I first started posting here I had a lot of responses stating the bleeding obvious when what I needed was some specific advice to some specific problems, not because I don't have all the badges and both breadth and depth of experience but because the combined knowledge of the ITILCommunity probably can give me quicker answers than are available by research alone. I fully accept that isn't always the case and I like to think that I can contribute to that collective knowledge and help others more than I myself need help.

Maybe I have misinterpreted the purpose of a community.
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3298
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BorisBear

A community means that the members of the community work together to do things and share and help each other and communicate what they have done and what they need

There have been posters that said....

I have done this that and the other... I think I can do it better but I am stuck .....

We (the community) provide suggestions - some valid some not so and ask questions about the level of the knowledge of that particular poster's experience in ITIL or IT in general. Then we frame our answers / responses / suggestions that way

that is a community and that is how it is done

Ancedote / example : This is a farming community vice ITIL community

A new farmer comes up to a bunch of old timers or established farmers.
He says... I have planted some seeds but the seed get eaten by the birds. My scarecrows and noise makers are not working ... Is there something else I can do.

The other famers will give him suggestions / pointers / snide and silly remarks. and hopefully ... he learns and gets his seeds planted.

[this is what we do here as well]

Another person comes by and says. I have been farming for 10 years. Can one of you come over and plant these seeds for me or give me your hired help to do so as I don t know how to plant these successfully.
[that is what ALA said - paraphrased and exampled]

But I think there is enough on this issue. ALA, like Elvis, has left the building
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John Hardesty
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UrgentJensen
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Itil User Community Forum is intended to serve as an interactive and completely independent resource to support ITIL education and enable the free exchange of ITIL information.


So sayeth this very website.

Boris what you have done is confused 'free' as in 'without constriction' with 'free' as in 'do not need to pay'.

It is the former not the latter. No one is obliged to help and no one is privileged to expect it. Ok?

UJ
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BorisBear
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Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 403
Location: Sunderland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrgentJensen wrote:
Quote:
The Itil User Community Forum is intended to serve as an interactive and completely independent resource to support ITIL education and enable the free exchange of ITIL information.


So sayeth this very website.

Boris what you have done is confused 'free' as in 'without constriction' with 'free' as in 'do not need to pay'.

It is the former not the latter. No one is obliged to help and no one is privileged to expect it. Ok?

UJ


I don't expect you to give it up for free but I do think it discourteous if someone asks a simple question and you flame them for asking it - if you don't want to volunteer that information for free then don't comment......simple.

Some of the responses here are on the bounds of being conduct unbecoming a forum which purports to support ITIL education.
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UrgentJensen
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Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I agree it can seem a bit too hostile, I don't really think it's needed to that degree, but I stand by my original post.

Do you think it was agressive?

I thought it was observational if somewhat frustrated. It wasn't even really aimed at the guy that started this thread, just the slow and increasing pull of grabbing hands.

Also, this forum caters for job advertisements and because of the nature of the subject matter you'll get a fair percentage of consultants frequenting the site. The knowledge that is being grabbed at is effectively their bread and butter.

I am not a consultant as it happens and perhaps that's why I'm vociferous but a little less agressive. And delirious without my pills.

I'm not justifying an agressive attitude either, but you can't expect more than what you get here in terms of a free 'service'.

UJ
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