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ITIL :: View topic - i need strong basic information!!
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i need strong basic information!!
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ambi
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: Nov 12, 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sir correct informaiton is ...i want to know the market of ITIL. means its use in industry. so once if i enter inside ITIL i should not come out. there should be more opportunities inside. so only the experienced members can solve my doubt. so this time plzzzzz give me calm and usefull answer. so i hope by i can achieve something in ITIl.. Smile
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SwissTony
Senior Itiler


Joined: Feb 26, 2009
Posts: 118
Location: Geneva

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ambi....if you really want to gain some valuable information from all the experience held by the numerous members of this forum please take the following into consideration:

To provide any assistance we would need the following
1> Your background. What is you degree in?
2> Your knowledge. What have you discovered about ITIL.
3> Based on 1 & 2 what area interests you about ITIL, where would you like to use the framework & certification of ITIL to achieve your ambitions.

Finally, show some consideration for the people you are asking. Most people here have spent many years in IT, working, studying, learning. If you wanted to employ anyone here for a few hours to advise you then you'd need considerably more than a Big Mac n Fries to afford it.

By coming back you show interest, know you need to show effort.

Very Happy
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 1884
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ambri,

you do not know what ITIL is, you may not know what IT Service Management is. Therefore you cannot know if you have an aptitude for them.

I do not know what "Engineering in Computer science" is, nor what you learnt there, but perhaps it qualifies you to get a job in which you can train, for example, in business programming or server maintenance and support. These are roles that will bring you in contact with the world of IT Service Management and if you develop a mature understanding you will then be able to progress in that direction.

In doing this you will come across ITIL and, with many employers, you will get the opportunity or incentive to study ITIL at appropriate times.

If you really want to choose a path because it offers prospects rather than because you have some capability and temperament to suit, then why not do job searches with the keyword ITIL and gain a flavour of what kind and number of jobs are out there right now?

John is completely correct to suggest you find out the basics for yourself. It is extremely easy to do on the internet and will be more comprehensive than anything that will be volunteered on this kind of forum. If you are really keen, then you could learn much just by reading through the forum, thread by thread. That might be enough to drive you to another career path, or the opposite.
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"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
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mnsmith
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Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 109
Location: North West England

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ambi

I will try and give you some basic advice about ITIL.

ITIL is not a skill, it's a bit of theory.

If you wanted to be a java programmer, you would learn the basics and (with a little luck) you should get a job writing java code. You will be at the bottom of the java career ladder but it's a start and if you keep writing good code, you will progress and one day earn big bucks.

Learning ITIL is more like learning how object orientated programming languages work. It's a great thing to put on your CV and it will even open up some job opportunites for you but if I employed you as a programmer, I would have to teach you java. I therefore wouldn't even invite you to an interview.

On the other hand, if you knew the general object orientated principles and had experience of writing java code, then I would consider hiring you and I may even pay you a little bit more then someone who just knew java.

Moving back to the ITIL world - yes having the knowledge is likely to give you more pay than not having the knowledge but actual experience of the service management industry is far more important.

The best thing for you to do, is get a job on a service desk (for example), which is probably one of the entry points for a service management career. Once you've been there a few months, start looking at ITIL because it will make a lot more sense to you when you have some experience because you'll be able to map the theory to real life. You might even find that your employer will pay for the ITIL course.

ITIL is a framework so it doesn't have a clear career path to follow. However, after a year or so in the service management arena, you'll have a much better idea of the industry and will be able to map out a career path for youself.

I've only got 10 years experience of service management and I'm still looking at career options, so put ITIL to one side for now, get a job and see where life takes you.

Mick

P.S. you have gained some respect from me for being persistent in your questions, despite ukvikings replies. He's has managed to scare a lot of people away from this forum. Although you questions are too broad for this forum, please feel to come back here for advice anytime, when you have something more specific to ask.
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Mick Smith
Change, Configuration and Release Manager
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tomkin
Itiler


Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Posts: 48
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ambri,

Don't get disheartened by the advice you get here, you may not like it but people generally talk sense here and truth is bitter sometimes.

Listen to what everyone is saying here and make up your own mind, what you want to do.

As Ukviking said its not a counselling site but the topic has turned that way now.

It is not a question of ITIL anymore, its about you deciding what you want to do. Clearly, you did not actually want this Computer degree, you just happened to do it. If you were not passionate about it when studying, the knowledge (or marks) you got during the degree would be just minimal.

You can choose to be an electrician and plumber, and be the best at it, if you really want to that. Follow your interests and ambitions. Don't succumb to peer and family pressure (it can be overwhelming in India). Make your own way through the sh*t of 1000s for Indian graduates.

All you need to do it take a deep look and see what you actually like and what you want to do. Don't get distracted by your freinds' iPhone's glare and the latest bike or car they have. They are sucking parasites feeding of their parents.

Make a name for yourself. Do some soul searching. Take some time of hectic life in Bangalore or Delhi, where ever you are.

Its not late for you. You are very young and this can be turning point in your life. Think hard about your strengths and likes and then make a decision. I am sure you won't regret what you decide.

Its never late. Better late than never.

Regards,
Tomkin
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swansong
Senior Itiler


Joined: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 109

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my broad views. Its just a brain dump, but hopefully answers your questions.

[1] what exactly the ITIL deals with?
[2] where exactly ITIL concepts will be used? i mean appliaction of ITIL
[3] is ITIL concepts are only usefull in IT companies?

There are two very broad parts to IT.
1. Supporting business change. This is essentially your project management stuff.
2. Supporting the business. This your operational management bit.

On a day to day basis, ITIL generally manifests itself in the operational management bit. It is a series of disciplines which ensures that IT supports the business in delivering its business goals. I will not go through all the (ITIL V2) concepts, but it is a framework around such things as:-
1. How you handle things that go wrong.
2. How you handle change.
3. How you manage my IT resource to ensure its available when the business wants it to be available.
4. How you manage all of the above (and more) in a cost effective way.
5. What are your operational targets and how do these support the business in meeting its targets
6. Most importantly….how do you prove that you are continually improving the operational service that you deliver your customers

ITIL is not a series of prescriptive processes. It is a framework of best practice ideas, and you apply as much or as little of these ideas, depending on your risks, and your attitude to mitigating these risks. I think this is fundamentally the most difficult thing to grasp. ITIL only works if you understand the objectives of your organisation, and then you apply ITIL in such a way that allows you organisation to meet those objectives.

Although ITIL is regarded as predominantly an IT discipline, if you look at the bullet points above, any of these can be applied in a non IT environment. I have secured non IT roles in organisations based on the strength of my IT centric CV, by focusing less on ITIL as a dogma, and more around the risks that ITIL best practice can deliver an operational management environment.

ITIL should (but very rarely does) manifest itself through the project lifecycle, and should make the transition to operational support environment a lot smoother. You should be creating plans for (say) handling things that go wrong at the project design phase, otherwise when your solution is in the operational environment, you will either have no process for resolving things that go wrong, or your legacy solution does not support the need of the subsequent service.

Here endeth the lesson.
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ambri

What Tomkin says is correct. You need to decide what you want to do now. You dont have do X for ever.

I started in IT in the early 80s got out. Worked in restaurants and thought about being a chef. So I chose jobs / training that would suit that

Then I realized... while I enjoy food, cooking and preparing.. I love doing it for my self and not for others. and that while I liked being a chef... I did not want it as a career

So I went back to IT. IT was easy for me.

I loved programing - but did not want to be a programmer
so I worked in Operations - service desks, help desk, crisis centres
I thrived when there were crisis or

I moved up the chain and used the skills I had in the past to make myself needed and improve my types of roles

I am now a contractor - I work for companies for a period - doing a specific job - change management for IT. I am damn good at it - because I worked in areas where it was not there and I saw the effects of and of not having CM

I use ITIL Best Practice, CoBIT, ISO20k, years of experience and the wisdom i have gained to kept me employed and well sought after

But it took me 25 years to get here.

Life is a journey not a race

You need to look at what is next for you

You need A JOB to pay bills, eat and live - get one, find one, use that degree to get u a job. You may not like the job or the industry but it is experience and it pays
Continue your education - hobbies, extra curricular activities etc,. schools etc

look for the job you want to do - but take your time.

Use the internet for what it is there for

an information source - learn explore etc
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John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)

Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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thechosenone69
Senior Itiler


Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very wise advice UK. Although my grandfather told me the last person that spoke wisdom died hundred of years ago.

Respect Very Happy
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Ali Makahleh
Configuration Management(Blue Badge),
ITILV2 Service Manager(Red Badge),
ITILV3 Expert(Lilac Badge) Certified.

“If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing." W. Edwards Deming.
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNS Smith

You are quite correct. I am a blunt person and I dont give a monkey about people not staying on the site because of the posts I leave after they show up

I do however try to go for the content / post and intent of the post rather than person - even with ambri.

I do however, feel that anyone who comes here should have at least done some research or home work about IT, ITIL etc

You do notice that the ones who merely said ' gimme ITIL stuff' did not stay but those who are really interested do stay.. even infrequently posting

Ambi (Ambri), take the advice from this site. Learn from it. Do some research and come back and ask questions - but this time - give us background info so we would know you took the time to research
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John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)

Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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tomkin
Itiler


Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Posts: 48
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really is a waste of time getting involved in posts like this.

You spend time thinking and then typing your response and the OP disappears.

It is happening a lot with these kind of posts.
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. true

But should this be a chapter is the ITIL v3 sixth book under specious incidents ?
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John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)

Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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rpmason
Senior Itiler


Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 105
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tomkin wrote:
You spend time thinking and then typing your response and the OP disappears.


Another newbie might find all this good stuff--but they'll have to get all the way to the second page to get to it. In any case, I enjoyed the good counselling.
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Ruth Mason
USA
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tomkin
Itiler


Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Posts: 48
Location: London

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmason, you are right !! Somehow I like ukviking's reactions Smile

John, I happnened to see your pic on linkedin. Is that really you ? If its you, I cannot stop imagining you in a fit of rage Very Happy
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rpmason
Senior Itiler


Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 105
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I worked in John's company, I don't think I'd deviate from the Change process more than once!
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Ruth Mason
USA
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3321
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomkin,

yes that is me. However, I have lost about 8 stone

I am still 6'0"

And Ruth.

No one ever fails to follow the process more than once. EVER.

They either learn or get a new role where I am no longer in the picture

and I never have a fit of rage. I am very calm cool and collected when I express my disfavor.
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John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)

Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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