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ITIL :: View topic - Would Problem Management become involved when...
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Would Problem Management become involved when...

 
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NuggetsOfTruth
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Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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Location: West Midlands

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Would Problem Management become involved when... Reply with quote

Hi all
I'm new to Problem Management and a Business Analyst by trade who has recently been given the task of designing and implementing an operational Problem process/policy where there is currently none existing, for a fast moving IT support service; who also has gaps and little governance of their Incident and Change processes.

I need some info around where the boundaries of Incident and Problem management lie, and having read many papers across the net, I have more questions than answers!!!

Could the group please advice on this scenario?
Whilst working on an incident for a single user, an engineer identifies the workaround, underlying cause and permanent solution and applied the fix within the incident SLA. The engineer also identifies that this issue will potentially affect 20 other users, but as yet they have not experienced the issue. A change is required to implement the solution for the 20 users.

This is the first time this fault has occurred, it is not a Major Incident, and potentially affects a relatively small group of users, so not considered widespread. So with the underlying cause known according to many of the definitions I have read this doesn't seem to meet Problem criteria.

Therefore, should this change be progressed direct from the incident process owner or should a Problem be raised first? I am wondering if this type of scenario would be managed through Problem Mgmt perhaps as a known error, or as there is very little for Problem to manage, should Incident progress the change?

If this should be touched by Problem Mgmt, would this be a considered to be Proactive PM?

Many thanks in advance.
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3320
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the ITIL Books

Read them

They will provide you with the answers

Even the study book for the ITIL Foundation will give you an idea

I find it quite disconcerting that you - who has no experience implementing IT Service Management - is expected to do so with out any knowledge

Prey tell this is not some construction company using wait staff to build a multi story building
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John Hardesty
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 1884
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Would Problem Management become involved when... Reply with quote

The boundaries between problem and incident management are strongly and logically related to the difference between an incident and a problem and have been clearly defined several times in the last year or two on this site. You shouild be able to find them easily.

NuggetsOfTruth wrote:

Whilst working on an incident for a single user, an engineer identifies the workaround, underlying cause and permanent solution and applied the fix within the incident SLA. The engineer also identifies that this issue will potentially affect 20 other users, but as yet they have not experienced the issue. A change is required to implement the solution for the 20 users.

This is the first time this fault has occurred, it is not a Major Incident, and potentially affects a relatively small group of users, so not considered widespread.


Firstly, you have a problem: "applied the fix within the incident SLA" - if you have a decent SLA this statement has no meaning.

Secondly, read what ISO20000 says about problem management and then read ITIL properly - less chance of having the serious misunderstanding that many, even with the certificates and even consultants, are prone to.

Thirdly, what part of incident management is reserved for dealing with non-incidents?

Fourthly, and I'm totally with John on this, what kind of organization is mature enough to have properly decided that the priority for improvement is in the area of problem management, while at the same time immature enough to delegate this to someone who lacks the knowledge, experience and understanding and still does not provide them with at least sufficient guidance that questions like yours do not need to be asked on an internet forum?

Okay, a starter for you: don't you think that the actual problem is that there are twenty users sitting on a volcano which could go off at any time?
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abu1
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Joined: Oct 26, 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the root cause is unknown then its a problem. once a work around has been found needs to be communicated to the service desk. then if change is required to resolve it needs to be passed tochange managment.

It may have started of as an major incident but once you realise its not a known error and cannot find cause then its a problem.. hope that helps


Apologies on behalf of some of the older forum mebers instead of answering questions they become sarcastic un helpfull Rolling Eyes
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
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Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abu1,

you do not have the authority to apologize on my (or anyone else's) behalf.

abu1 wrote:
If the root cause is unknown then its a problem.


Additionally, if the underlying (a far better term than "root", in my opinion) cause is known, but the problem has not been resolved then it is still a problem. The purpose of problem management is to manage the resolution of problems not just find out why they are there.


abu1 wrote:
once a work around has been found needs to be communicated to the service desk. then if change is required to resolve it needs to be passed tochange managment.


A problem is never passed to change management. Change management has no remit for the resolution of problems. I should also point out that a workaround may also involve a change, and all changes require to be managed.

abu1 wrote:
It may have started of as an major incident but once you realise its not a known error and cannot find cause then its a problem.. hope that helps


No! That does not help If it is a major incident then it is a major incident and requires to be resolved by means of incident management. An incident never becomes a problem. The cause of an incident may well be indicative of a problem and that will also need to be investigated and resolved, but it is not the same thing.

I won't apologize for your response.

cheers,

Diarmid
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"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abu1

Also do not apologize for me either
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John Hardesty
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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abu1
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Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
Abu1

Also do not apologize for me either



Then stop replying with sarcastic comments and answer the questions posted
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UKVIKING
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Posts: 3320
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abu1

I did answer the question

I will continue to post sarcastic comments and asnwer the quesiton in the way I think they should be done

If you have an issue with that, look for the user - ITILADMIN - and complain

Otherwise, ...
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John Hardesty
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3320
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually dont post to my own posts

but I just realized something

Abu1, thank you .... seriously ....

I, being an American in the UK, should be incapable of being sarcastic as Americans are not known for being able to be sarcastic and even ironic

After 12 years, I guess I have learned to be sarcastic.

And one more thing Abu1

I am not as harsh as I used to be on this forum. I have actually toned my response style way down
Ask Diarmid or Liz or BorisBear or some of the other long term residents of this looney bin
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John Hardesty
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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abu1
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Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
Abu1

I did answer the question

I will continue to post sarcastic comments and asnwer the quesiton in the way I think they should be done

If you have an issue with that, look for the user - ITILADMIN - and complain

Otherwise, ...


that is fine but i think new users who do not know you well may not find that approach or reply very welcomming. and As long as i am here this will not be tolerated i shall makesure everyone gets good polite response. I am only doing my duty


thanks you
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 1884
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abu,

I didn't know you were ITILADMIN!.

Be as polite as you like on your own behalf.

Feel free to tell me if you think my etiquette is lacking.

But on no account give anyone the impression that you own me. I'e. do not apologise on my behalf. Where apology from me is warranted (and only I am the judge of that) I will always apologise.

It remains my opinion that my first response in this thread was more useful than your own contribution to anyone, newbie or not.
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"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
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