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ITIL :: View topic - Mgr course at the weekend?
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Mgr course at the weekend?
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itiltrainer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Mgr course at the weekend? Reply with quote

This is an open question to all of you out there who have yet to study for your Mgr exam.

I was wondering if one of the main reasons that more people did not take this exam was simply the fact that it requires you to take 2 weeks out of work (2 x 5 working days), and for many people this is simpy not practical.

Would you be therefore be interested in taking a Mgr course that ran on weekends? I calculate that in order to study for the required hours this would need 4 weekends (+ revision day(s) on top).

I realise that som eorganisations are now offering Foundation courses at the weekend, but do you think running the Mgr course in the same way would be a good idea?
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QUICKLEARNER
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itiltrainer - Yes. A very big yes from me. I think it would be a most good idea to provide this course not on a weekday.

If you know of anybody who does this please let me know.
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nagarajgoud
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Idea! Its big 'Yes' of mine too.
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Roger
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: what about boot camp approach? Reply with quote

The idea of Managers courses on the weekend is nice for contractors, but most people working for major organizations may not be keen to give up their weekends.

What about the Boot Camp approach... 6 days (long days).. still covering all aspects, but effectively reducing 10 days down to a single week of high intensity.
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stevelawless
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Weekend courses Reply with quote

As a trainer of Foundation, Practitioner and Managers courses for Purple Griffon and a number of other taining providers over the last 4 years please allow me to add my views on weekend courses.

I have run a number of weekend Foundation courses, and without exception they have only appealed to contractors, so there is a limited market in terms of a commercial viability for many accredited training organisations. Costs are higher as the trainer will charge a premium rate (overtime - as weekends are precious), and typically a contractor wants a good deal (discount - because they are focusing on costs). So for many organisations it does not make commercial sense. Having said that we did make a small profit from Weekend Foundations.

You would require to run 4 weekend courses probably over a 4 month period to meet ISEB's rules regarding contact time. You would also require two trainers each weekend, again to meet ISEBs rules. This all adds to the cost of running the course

The reason for spreading out the weekends would be to give the delegates sufficient time to read and absorb the two very large volumes comprising the Service Support and Service Delivery books. Trying to get at least 6 delegates to agree 4 weekends over a 4 month period could be a task in itself, and what happens if someone misses a weekend?

Lastly the Bootcamp approach.... This level of certification is not something that you can cram, unless you have a photographic memory and many years of widespead in-depth IT experience. It requires at least a 3 month commitment from the majority of delegates. Many people think of the Service Management Managers certificate as the equivalent of a Prince2 Practitioner. Believe me it is not.
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LizGallacher
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with everything Steve says, especially his last comment. What has occurred to me, although it would be very hard to organise, and could only work somewhere like london where there is a large market, is that doing the Managers certificate over evening classes could work - This would mean each topic spread over a number of evenings, with lecctures, course work and mock exam questions, Doone this way it would take at least a couple of terms of commitment, but would give people the chance to absorb the material, and improve over time.
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itiltrainer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, thanks to all those that took the time to contribute to this topic.

It does seem that there are some mixed views on this. It is especially interesting to hear the views from Steve and Liz, and I cannot agree more with the statement that ‘It requires at least a 3 month commitment’.

However I still continue to think that there must be must be other valid approaches to teaching this subject that the traditional 2 x 5 day (+ revision) schedule. It may be true that the Mgrs certificate is not the same as the P2 Practitioner….but nor is it the equivalent of a BA, BSc, Msc, MA, Mphil etc….and you can take all of these part time / self study etc…just a thought!
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handyman
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizGallacher wrote:
Doone this way it would take at least a couple of terms of commitment, but would give people the chance to absorb the material, and improve over time.


I think that this would be beneficial and would open up managers level training to a wider market whilst at the same time raise the pass level as delegate would be better prepared.
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Loboc
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread, please allow me to add my $.02:

1: the 2 weeks + reversion is effectively a boot camp method. If you are planning on doing anything else during this period you are either deluding yourself, or setting yourself up to fail the test most likely both.

2: weekends implies that there is sufficient population in a location that would make the class both large enough to be profitable, and large enough to bring in sufficient points of view to make it a good learning experience, not sure (in the US at least) that is the case. It is unlikely that you would get people to travel to a site for the 5, 6, 7 (?) weekends necessary to complete the training.

3: Yes, a SM cert is not a MS, or a BS, etc. however, as I am in a Ph.D. program I can confidently assert that the Service Manager course is the hardest course I have ever taken. bar none.

4: If anything, I would think a higher success rate could be achived by expanding the time between the 2 class session to enable students to have more time to experience (with their new viewpoint) and study. of course, this would require more support from the work place. Employers seem to believe that if your in the office your working, not studying for your SM exam Smile.

Regards,

Doug Anderson
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LizGallacher
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is essential that you do NOT do the 2 weeks back-to-back. The chances of doing well in the exam after that are pretty poor, I would think. Ideally, have the first week, then 3-4 weeks, then the second week, then 2-3 weeks, Revision day, followed by the exam a few days later. This gives you enough time to do the reading etc., without "going off the boil" and getting distracted with too long a wait . The problem with this is that there is a great demand for courses/trainers etc for these timings - and none at all for the week or two after the exam.
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stevelawless
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Weekend ITIL training courses Reply with quote

Following the tread of the discussion regarding weekend training courses, I am looking at the commercial aspect of running the Managers course over a number of weekends, and it may be possible, so watch this space.

As a ressult of this prompting, our sales team have advised me of a weekend foundation course in London which they are promoting. It's on 9th and 10th of December in London and priced at £695 including a Prometric exam to be taken sometime the following week.

So if you know of any Contractors, who would benefit from this offer please feel free to point them to our sales team on 01539 736828 or email sales@purplegriffon.com

...now back to the Managers cost model....
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itiltrainer
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and of course Steve, following the thread of another discussion, the trainer(s) you use for this weekend Mgr course will have a Distinction?
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stevelawless
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject: Weekend courses Reply with quote

They may or they may not, for the reasons given in the 'other' thread, but they will be exceptional. We currently have a 100% pass rate for our previous weekend foundation courses...so there....

I put the 100% down to the candidates dedication and willingness to give up their weekend. They have been all 'volunteers' not 'prisoners'...
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itiltrainer
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr L,

I never doubted for a moment your ability to achieve a 100% pass rate…and of course the whole concept of ‘volunteers’ and not ‘prisoners’ does go a long way to support the entire concept of a weekend Mgr course….glad to see you are thinking my way…you know it makes sense!
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Ripsa
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liz and Loboc, could you please give your contact information as I am looking forward to pursue the Master from India.
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