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The Itil Community Forum: Forums
ITIL :: View topic - Need Info regarding Manager Certification
Practitioner is concentrating on 1 discipline such as Change (or a couple of clustered disciplines such as Change and Config.) The courses are for people doing that job, and concentrate on practicalities - what should be on your CAB agenda, who should be on your CAB, which changes should be standard etc.
Manager level is about overall management - planning, implementing, improving, costing etc. It requires a thorough knowledge of all the disciplines and their interactions, as well as being able to do a cost/benefit analysis, business case etc for each area etc.
For managers you have to do both (V3 might change this) SD and SS. many people find SS closer to their experience than SD, but, strangely, this is not always reflected in how well they do i the exam. I think that this might be because they study SD, and think they already know SS. _________________ Liz Gallacher,
ITIL EXPERT
Accredited ITIL and ISO/IEC20000 Trainer and Consultant - Freelance
Joined: Sep 16, 2006 Posts: 3590 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:10 am Post subject:
I took the following courses//exams
Foundation
Change, config ^ Release Practioner
Manager's
ISO 20000 Consultant (itSMF)
COBIT 4.0
I am and have been working primarily as a Change, Config & release person
Both for a company full time and as a consultant/contractor/it prostitue/it whore.
Having the mgr's certificate gives me added weight when i make decisions and ruling in both jobs....
If I say.... blah blah blah... when I worked for the company i did.. they took it as the truth both cause my role and my level of itil certification
same applies now but as a consultant it gives me extra weight to make statements... the company that hires me....hires me an a context expert - change.. etc _________________ John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
I agree with John - Qulaifications without experience is not enough to be a consultant - ERxperience alone may be enough, but if you have the qualification as well, the client knows you have that level of knowledge. Like John, I have found each complementsd the other _________________ Liz Gallacher,
ITIL EXPERT
Accredited ITIL and ISO/IEC20000 Trainer and Consultant - Freelance
I agree with John - Qulaifications without experience is not enough to be a consultant - ERxperience alone may be enough, but if you have the qualification as well, the client knows you have that level of knowledge. Like John, I have found each complementsd the other
I would take this a step further and state that 'proven track record' is the most important feature when evaluating a consultant. You can have 20 years as a PM but if you can't validate your experiance then you might as well not have any. I also don't put much wieght on certifications. They're good to have and illustrate a certain level of compency but just because someone has a PMP doesn't mean that they can come in and run my multimillion dollar project. It just means they have a baseline to understand PM lingo.
Not sure what the difference is between experience and proven track record - you need to hav eput this stuff into practice, more than once, and have done that successfully - that to me is experience, is that what you mean by track record?
I think we already all agreed that qualifications alone are not enough. I would say though that the Managers certificate does count for a lot in the market, and is more than basic competence. Many people do not realise the step change there is with the Manager's certificate - which s why it is hard to pass. _________________ Liz Gallacher,
ITIL EXPERT
Accredited ITIL and ISO/IEC20000 Trainer and Consultant - Freelance
Hi Guyz
Well as per my understanding certifications can be a plus in some situations. Like i have the good Software Development experience with Team Leading experience as well. As the matter of fact no fresh graduated can't be hired directly as Developmemt Manager or Project Manager, so the guys who have practical experience can get the position of DM or PM (even though experienced guys still dont have the experience of all the phases of Project Management or IT Management). So i think the experience in particular field with the Project Management certification will help out in this situation to get some Managemnet position. Well its also fact that most Management jobs require the prior experience of Management but for such guys the chances are bright.
Cheeers
Hasan
Joined: Sep 16, 2006 Posts: 3590 Location: London, UK
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject:
CrazyDeveloper
When I took the Foundation course in Sep 9-12, 2001, I had the following experience under my belt
1983-4 US Army
1984-87 NOC Operations Team lead - ArpaNET/Milnet;Config/change lead ArpaNet/Milnet - BBN Communications
1994-99 Senior Application Trainer - All desktop app out there - MS Office;Lotus Smart etc.. wrote custom course on DB design and VBA - prvate company
1999-01 NOC Operations Lead (UK)- Digital Island
The course gave me an insight into what else is around in IT operations _________________ John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)
Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
Not sure what the difference is between experience and proven track record - you need to hav eput this stuff into practice, more than once, and have done that successfully - that to me is experience, is that what you mean by track record?
Let me give you an example of something I have encountered. One individual stated he had 15 years in IT project management. He lacked any valid credentials (such as a PMP) but insisted that his 15 years of experience was worth much more than what a PMP with less time would bring. When asked about specific projects he's worked on and some other details he wasn't really able to give any. After talking to him for some more time I realized that his experience wasn't as a IT Project Manager (Even though that was his job title) but he was a supervisor for a group of PC technicians. So his projects have always involved rolling out desktops, troubleshooting printers and all the other things going with that. Not much of a project manager at all.
The individual we ended up picking up for the project was a certified PM. Had done 5 years of PM work under General Dynamics and actually provided a portfolio of all major projects he had worked over the last 5 years.
So the first gentleman had 15 years of experience, the second gentleman had 5 years of experience but also a ‘proven track record’. Needless to say we hired and paid more for the second person.
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