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ITIL :: View topic - Any freelance/associate trainers out there?
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Any freelance/associate trainers out there?

 
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LizGallacher
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Any freelance/associate trainers out there? Reply with quote

As an assocaite trainer myself, who has just set up as an accredited Training Organisation, it occurs to me that we (associate trainers) are not a very well organised group. I found a website for an association of itil trainers, based in Holland, but it seems that there has not been much activity on that site for a year or two. With all that is happening in the training world, with us all having to learn the new V3 material, sit the new exams etc., I think we should try and work together/support each other.
For example, I currently have a requirement for a V2 Foundation course in the uk which I cannot do. I am sure that there are trainers out there looking for work. Perhaps we can all help each other?
Anyone interested in sending me their details, please PM me. Or else just reply to this thread, saying what your thoughts are.
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Liz Gallacher,
ITIL EXPERT
Accredited ITIL and ISO/IEC20000 Trainer and Consultant - Freelance
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dboylan
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Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a little curious about how a freelance trainer would operate. Don't the training materials have to be certified by EXIN/ISEB? If not, then can the trainer just make up the materials that they think will allow the students to pass? And how do you coordinate with the proctors (Loyalist College in the states)?
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LizGallacher
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not know what happens in the US, but in the UK, many trainers are freelance. We have to be accredited with ISEB (which is pretty rigorous), and use accredited materials. The freelance part is that we are not employed by Accredited Training Organisations full-time. ATO's will have a few permanent trainers, but otherwise apply to ISEB to use an accredited trainer, who is then added to their organisation's profile with ISEB. When they have a requirement which their own staff cannot fulfil, they contact their associates. We then deliver their accredited materials, as if we were employed by them, and the exam/proctor/invigilator is arranged by the ATO as normal.

I have recently become an ATO myself, so sometimes I am delivering my own accredited materials, and arranging everything myself, sometimes I am acting as an associate to another ATO. As an ATO, I have associates/most that I use in the same way.

This means that ATOs have reduced costs, as they do not need to employ someone full-time (most courses are 3 days, so they would be being paid for 5 days a week, but only bringing in money for 3). Trainers like it because they have the flexibility to work in different places, delivering different materials, and can schedule work to suit them. As far as the students go, they are getting accredited trainers, delivering accredited materials, through an accredited training organisation. ISEB controls all aspects of the accreditation, and the training world is small, so trainers quickly build up a reputation. A poor trainer would soon not get much work!
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Liz Gallacher,
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itiltrainer
Itiler


Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liz,

Good news…and bad news.

The good news is that I think your idea of some sort of Freelance trainer association is excellent.

The bad news is that…well the bad news is that like the majority of Freelance trainers I am a relatively solitary animal, only gathering with other trainers for the occasional Mgr course. To cut a long story short…I have no interest in setting up and / or running such an association…but would be happy to join one if it existed.

In short…with apologies to Kevin Costner…’build it and they will come’. My belief is that if you do set something up there will be participation, but it is going to be down to you to get it up and going.

Sorry – but that is the way I see it.

Oh – any views on the new v3 Foundation syllabus? For what it is worth, here is my mature assessment….what a complete and utter mess!!! What have those idiots done!!! I genuinely believe that the new Foundation course will no longer be relevant to 80% of the students who attend…it is simply trying to cover too much ground. Remember that the v2 Foundation was not an ITIL Foundation course, but rather it was an ITSM course (concentrating specifically on Service Support ad Delivery). Now it covers the entire ITIL Lifecycle…not what is required for the majority of students, who simply wish to concentrate on the ‘Transition and Operations’ phases (with a bit of Design).

I stress I am not criticising v3 (which is actually rather good). I am specifically criticising the Foundation syllabus for v3…which in my opinion will lead to the eventual demise of ITIL as a whole (people will simply stop being trained in it, as the training, and therefore ITIL itself, will be seen to be irrelevant to the real world!).

Any thoughts
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LizGallacher
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply ITILTRAINER. I think that you may well be right as far as any association is concerned - There have not been a lot of replies to this thread, for examle. Trainers are in competition with one another, it is true, but we also have some commonn interests.
As far as the V3 Foundation is concerned - I could not have put it better myself - however good V3 is (and like you, I think there is a lot of really good stuff) the new course/exam structure could damage it enormously. i have given 1 course, with another one due, andf it was very hard work, with the studemnts utterly bemused at why some topics were in there. I do not know the results of that one yet, but I gave a V2 course the following week - everyone enjoyed it, learnt something, and they all passed. I cannot see how it can continue as it is.
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dboylan
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Joined: Jan 03, 2007
Posts: 189
Location: Redmond, WA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting...

Here in the states, freelance trainers are scarce to non-existent. This is due to the cost of developing and accrediting course materials. If you are an organization that can afford to get materials signed off by EXIN, then you are a large enough organization to hire full-time, dedicated trainers.

These companies may hire a few freelance trainers, but for the most part their business model is training > consulting > long-term-relationships. Freelance trainers do very little to move the corporate stakeholders toward the long-term-relationship partners that are the true money makers that the big players need to support the organizations they have created.

They actually have very strong interests in keeping freelance players out of the market. If there is a strong freelance market, they lose their "foot in the door" opportunity to get the corporations into the long-term-relationship that they are working so hard to achieve.

If there were a market in the states, it would be to produce ITIL approved training materials with reasonable licensing fees. It would avoid the prohibitive cost expenditure to develop approved training materials. And it would avoid the messy legalities of working freelance for organizations whose best interest is further reaching than just delivering a good course.

If I had pre-approved training material, I would gladly step into the freelance market. As it is in the states, this is simply not feasible.
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itiltrainer
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Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liz,

I thinbk we both agree, that the v3 Foundation is a 'disaster zone'. You do have to wonder what the examination panel were actually thinking about! Just to be clear - I mean these people - the examination panel that set the V3 Foundation syllabus:

Pauline Angelico, Singapore / Australia
Pierre Bernard, Canada
David Cannon, USA
Rosemary Gurney, UK
Signe-Marie Hernes Bjerke, Norway (Scandinavia)
Majid Iqbal, USA/India
Vernon Lloyd, UK
Ivor Macfarlane, UK
Christian Nissen, Denmark (Scandinavia)
Anthony Orr, USA
Sergio Rubinato Filho, Brazil
Wilfred Wah, Hong Kong
David Wheeldon, UK
Katsushi Yaginuma , Japan

What I would really appreciate is - if any of the above are reading this could they please explain to me the rationale and thining behind the new Foundation syllabus...please.
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LizGallacher
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Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most ATO's (including myself) would be very happy to license accredited materials. The person licensing them needs to still be an approved Training Organisation, (in ISEB terms, applyoing for part 1 Accreditation as an organisation), then licensing materials, rather than developing their own and getting them accredited.
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Liz Gallacher,
ITIL EXPERT
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Fabien
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dboylan wrote:
Here in the states, freelance trainers are scarce to non-existent. This is due to the cost of developing and accrediting course materials. If you are an organization that can afford to get materials signed off by EXIN, then you are a large enough organization to hire full-time, dedicated trainers.

Actually, I know a bunch of them and have been one myself. The larger training organizations use external trainers often. I probably still have a contract somewhere though I moved on from that biz...
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Fabien Papleux

Accenture
Technology Consulting | Service Excellence
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jewel
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an ITIL trainer, and have been looking for a forum of ITIL trainers to discuss and share informattion.

I am really surprised to see the little response.

Being in IT for the past 15 years, years, you are in competition sometimes, but without sharing information and learning from each other we will not grow and cannot provide the quality of service that the customer expects.

I just finished teachimg my first Version 3 session this week. Still awaiting the resultst. It took me approximately 4 weeks to absorb the 5 books and prepare. Yet I am not happy with the information. It does not flow smoothly so the participants can unerstand. There is nothing for the participants to take home except lots of new definitiions and concepts that realistically they cannot implement.
It really does not add value to someone at the Foundation level. If I was a participant, I would ask myself, what am I getting from this training except a certificate (if I pass the exam).

There are no forums out there except the IT Sceptic blog which is the only place I have been able to get a glimpse into how other trainers feel about this.

We certainly can have a forum right here, if we spread the word around and remain anonymous we can have a lively discussion among ourselves.

I just got feedback that they are reviewing the syllabus. We the trainers have to provide feedback to the training agency (I work for a training company) who will forward it to the international organization.

Apparently they are getting feedback from the trainers that the students are not very happy with the ITL Foundation V3 and they are aiming to update the material and the exam before the end of the year. Has anyone heard about this? It is specifically to Service Strategy and Continual Improvement Service.

The problem is, it should not just be those two books, it is the whole approach that needs reviewing. They are not aware and really understand who is the target audience for the Foundation V3 training.

I hope that we do spread the word out there about this web site. We do not neccessary have to form a trainers group but we can have a Trainers Blog where trainers can share information and concerns.

We are all overwhelmed by Ver 3. But the international community realized we interface with the participants and are in the best positioned to give them constructive feedback. I have also worked in IT and have 6 years experience implementing ITIL V2.
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