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ITIL :: View topic - ITIL Compliance
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ITIL Compliance

 
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DreamLodge
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:18 am    Post subject: ITIL Compliance Reply with quote

Is there an official ITIL auditing process? If you pass an ISO 20000 audit does this mean you are automatically ITIL compliant? Is there a difference between ISO 20000 compliance and ITIL compliance?

I know you can create your own internal ITIL audits, but are there companies that audit for ITIL as well, and not necessarily ISO?

By now I think you can see my confusion.

TIA!
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no such thing as ITIL compliance

As I stated in an earlier ISO 20k thread

Since ISO 20k has 16 disciplines and 10 disciplines really relate quite well to ITIL, having ISO 20k mean syour company is using Best Practice
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LizGallacher
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is not such thing as ITIL compliant, although you can do self-assessments to see how close you are. The principle of Adopt and Adapt means that each organisation will implement it differently. ISO/IEC 20000 certification proves that an organisation is meeting the requirements of the standard, most of which are based on ITIL, but with some additions.
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DreamLodge
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: ITIL Compliance Reply with quote

thank u for your responses. very helpful. Pls excuse me, I am a tech writer so I have to get this exactly right! Wink

This is the info on the subject that I had gathered from ITIL sites, etc. (practically verbatim---see below). If I augment for clarity w/ the additional info you both hv given me, would you say this original info is still correct, if not complete?


ISO/IEC 20000 is now the basis for certification audits and assessments of how well ITIL (IT infrastructure library) advice has been adopted. The standard was first published in December 2005. ITIL isn't a substitute for ISO, because ISO is more relevant to certification of processes, whereas ITIL is more about implementing those processes. Some IT product vendors and service providers have used the term "ITIL certified" in their marketing collateral—even though these claims were not justified. As ITIL adoption increases worldwide, IT process compliance will become the basis for discussions between IT organizations, business users, and outsourcing providers.

Also - - - My Foundation course teacher told me (I am pretty certain he said this and he was extremely knowledgeable) that the ISO/IEC certification now also serves as ITIL certification---but what you're telling me seems to contradict this, since you're saying there is NO ITIL certification, only ISO 20K, which basically covers ITIL and goes further. Is there any debate here? Or is this black & white?

tia again.
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is ISO 20k has 16 disciplines

10 of which match Service Support & Service Delivery

But you cant really say if yo have ISO20k, you are ITIL compliant

for pedantoic types it is wrong

what you are is with ISO20k is compliant with Best Practice as part of IS0 20k
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DreamLodge
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I hear you, I believe, and thank you. I do not want to appear to be even denser than I am, but I am still confused (not an entirely undesirable state in the Dream Lodge). So, one last try:

here is my dilemma:

Dr Jenny Dugmore, who is on the itSMF's ISO/IEC 20000 Certification Management Board and on OGC's ITIL Refresh Management Board, etc., writes this:

"ISO/IEC 20000 is also the basis for certification audits and assessments of how well ITIL advice has been adopted."


So, Dugmore, who is on the ISO certification board says that ISO is the basis for certification that you (and most others) say does not exist---what is she talking about?


Thx!



[Noted: Ediited by Admin to remove links]
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LizGallacher
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I ca say is to repeat what I said before (above). Are you sure it is an accurate quote from Jenny, as the standard does not mention ITIL, and the certification is based on whether the auditor is happy you have satisfied the requirements of the standard. It is perfectly possible to achieve certification having never heard of ITIL, because you are controlling Change etc.
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ianmc
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreamlodge has indeed quoted Dr. Dugmore correctly. The quote has been taken from the BCS website in an article entitled:
“BS 15000 to ISO/IEC 20000 - What difference does it make?”
I would not presume to speak on behalf of Dr Dugmore, so if any members of the community are in contact with her, perhaps Dr Dugmore could find the time to clarify her comments.
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Ianmc
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DreamLodge
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that is where I got the Dugmore quote. You can find it here:

Article on BCS site, third paragraph.

And here is another quote from Forrester Research that says the same thing:

From: Forrester Research, February 1, 2006. Article: “Is ITIL Compliance Possible Now? ITIL Is Now Aligned With An ISO Standard,” by Peter O'Neill.

“ISO/IEC 20000 is aligned with, and complementary to the process approach defined within ITIL from the Office of Government Commerce (OGC). Therefore, qualified auditors can now assess organizations' ITIL conformance. Some IT product vendors have long claimed that their products are ITIL compliant, and IT service providers have also used the term "ITIL certified" in their marketing collateral — even though neither of these claims was ever justified.”




[Edited: remove direct links]
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LizGallacher
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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I accept the quote is genuine. It is however the case that although the standard grew out of ITIL, ITIL is not mentioned in the standard, and you can use other approaches, and still achieve certification. It certifies that you are carrying service management to the required standard, and ITIL is best practice for service management, so there are obviously going to be huge areas of overlap, but there is no formal link. The standard excludes the Service Desk function, for example, and has additional areas of supplier management and so on.
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HENRY
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:51 am    Post subject: ITIL Compliance Reply with quote

Couldn't agree more with Liz - the beauty of the ISO/IEC 20000 Standard is that you do not have to adopt ITIL Best Practice in order to achieve it!
It requires evidence of compliance to the controls identified in Part 1. Much of the guidance in Part 2 of the standard is evident in the ITIL framework.
Hope we have all answered sufficiently to help you with your task.
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Fabien
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds like a very academic discussion to me. If the boss asks you whether the organization is ITIL-compliant, my money is on the fact that he/she doesn't care that there isn't such a thing. He has a reason to ask and you owe him/her a simple answer that corresponds to reality as closely as possible.

So, in brief, if your organization is ISO20K compliant, it means that your processes conform at least to the ITIL framework, and that your ITIL processes are at least at a maturity level of 3.

So a general 'yes' would be appropriate and justifiable.

I like splitting hair but....
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Cekir
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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The case is yet more complicated if treated theoretical as ITIL itself is not consistent about it.
Service Support, 10.2 lists criteria of software tools to be considered. The forth position on the list:
- ITIL compliance

Well... I hope this confusion will be resolved in the future.
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