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ITIL :: View topic - Monday-itis
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Monday-itis
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UrgentJensen
Senior Itiler


Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Monday-itis Reply with quote

Hi All,

It seems that half the time people are posting repeat questions, or asking for quite specific advice that is borderline consultancy.

For example you get questions on stuff like definitions (often posed with 'difference between' phrasing). Also you sometimes see 'bursts' of postings in different forums from the same individual, again often asking for loads of basic stuff but pretty much could have just written "Incident Management, what's that all about then?"

I enjoy trying to help other people, but if they can't be arsed to read the books/look it up in a search engine first then it becomes a little frustrating. Should people be spoon fed?

I'd like to hear more about real implementation issues and tips learnt by guests on this site, but I feel most of the energy is focused on Q & A sessions.

It's even quite impersonal now too, people don’t really communicate, they just reply with an answer, there's no 'Hi/Hello' on a lot of posts.

So are we just offering a service?

Maybe it's just a Monday thing (and I had a good weekend too!), maybe I'm missing the point of the site...

So would it be good to have more obvious signposts to the Open Guide "if you're new and have some basic questions about ITIL please read here first"… or maybe a forum for ITIL newbies to air their questions?

The site encourages ‘lively discussion’ so this post is meant to be in that spirit and with good intentions – I hope you understand.

Cheers,

UJ
Very Happy
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Skinnera
Senior Itiler


Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 121
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, Smile

I think a 'sticky FAQ topic' is always a good idea, though how much people will use it is another matter. Experience suggests that those who do (as I have done on many forums) are the type who will ask 'proper questions' and contribute something back in the main forums as well.

I think an area specifically for people to ask for 'simple' advice is not a bad idea, but if none of those who can offer help frequent it, it will fall into disuse and the questions will start to pop up in the general forums again.

Perhaps what we need is a 'private' area where the number & quality of posts gains you entry, and/or you are recommended, and/or your experience counts.

The latter would require some additional 'assessment' work from the mods or a chosen few (scary in itself...) but I have seen it work reasonably well in other forums (non-Itil but just as suceptible to the same issues Rolling Eyes ).

Expecting to be called elitist/right wing/a nazi by many... Confused
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m_croon
Senior Itiler


Joined: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 262
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skinnera wrote:
Hello, Smile

Expecting to be called elitist/right wing/a nazi by many... Confused


Hi Skinnera,

You darn itilist you...
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3312
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer to be called ITILer

So every one can go Hi, ITILer

As to the borderline consulting and basic questions, I also see foundation exam like questions and other silliness

I try when there is a borderline consultancy

I merely stick with a brief summary of what is in the blue book / red book and then post my snark remark about advice is free, consultancy is not
and state thast

The FAQ sheets dont seem to help as I see many questions about

Exams
ITIL Certification

etc

THe last one I thought was funny is the 'search for Connecticut and ITIL exams'

I merely said it found a lot... and left it there.

Some requests/posts seem to me to ask us - the major posters to the forum to provide the answers / do the work for some one because they dont know how to do it

It reminds me of a upper class course where 1 student had the prerequistes and everyone uses his work as their own because they can not be bothered to do their own work

It has also to do with whether people can engage their own mind, analyze, postulate and make a decision w/o having to depend on the phrase ' i checked with the experts and they say...'
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John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)

Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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Ed
Senior Itiler


Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 411
Location: Coventry, England

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi UJ

I think the 'responding with honorifics/names' issue is more one of missing manners than anything else. A lot of people, sadly, do not seem to see it as important to greet the person you are responding to.

I equally agree with John, and think that skinnera has a more than valid point. Skinnera I do not consider you right wing enough!!!!!!! Smile

I am inclined to think that the people who ask the basic questions, are essentially lazy, and do not want to to do the work involved in understanding the process under discussion.

Perhaps I am just a grumpy old b~'@%$£*d, but now I do not respond to such people. Evil or Very Mad

Regards

Ed
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3312
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am tempted to post the following questions

1 - have you read the FAQ
2 - have you done foundation course & exam

and wait for their response

Then ask the grumpy old b^£^£*£d question... well if you did, then you shoudl be able to answer your own d&*n question if you engage your mind and quite being a lazy f*&(

but

sometimes I enjoy posting my unique sarcastic and ironic prose

giving that i am a yank in king gordon court and i have been told we yanks dont do irony or sarcasm
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John Hardesty
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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UrgentJensen
Senior Itiler


Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which book covers irony Viking? Heh, heh, I crack me up.
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LizGallacher
Senior Itiler


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mostly answer questions about certification and exams and don't mind answering people who do not have much local information available to them, or have tried and got incorrect information that they want to verify. What I particularly hate is the posting of questions either from foundation or managers exams, looking for the correct answer. They do not seem to realise that the point (especially with managers) is to look at the case study, and work it out for yourself. There is no right answer.
I must admit when I realised that I had become a Senior Itiler, it made me feel very old, so having a village-elders forum makes it even worse.
"Aah Grasshopper, only in the CMDB shall ye find what ye seek" Very Happy
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Accredited ITIL and ISO/IEC20000 Trainer and Consultant - Freelance
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Skinnera
Senior Itiler


Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 121
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LizGallacher wrote:
I must admit when I realised that I had become a Senior Itiler, it made me feel very old, so having a village-elders forum makes it even worse.
So how did we get to be 'Senior' ITILers...? In terms of this forum I mean, what's the criteria? Was it part of our profile when we signed up? Confused
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LizGallacher
Senior Itiler


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purely down to the number of posts, I think!
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UrgentJensen
Senior Itiler


Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all your responses, it's good to know my sentiment is shared, makes me feel a little less selfish and elitist.

I cannot tolerate people who can't work out simple things for themselves; I mean, if you haven't got the nous to learn the basics in the first place then is ITIL implementation really going to be your strong point?

Having said that, I personally don't fancy separate areas. Ultimately everyone should be accessible as that otherwise destroys the word 'community'.

Some obvious place or more active moderation to steer new people to a basics forum or resource would be adequate.

I am just going to ignore lazy posting in future and discuss more indepth technical areas like 'what's the difference between a cake and biscuit?'.

UJ
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Skinnera
Senior Itiler


Joined: May 07, 2005
Posts: 121
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrgentJensen wrote:
I am just going to ignore lazy posting in future and discuss more indepth technical areas like 'what's the difference between a cake and biscuit?'.
Biscuits are 'hard' and cakes are 'soft'.

NEXT?!
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UKVIKING
Senior Itiler


Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3312
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no my gran's buttermilk biscuits

they are about 3 inches high

she puts a tablespoon of butter, honey and then a slice of country ham
while it is still warm

she then wraps them in a napkin, four wraps get tinfoil and puts them in a bag for me to take to school

hmmmm
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John Hardesty
ITSM Manager's Certificate (Red Badge)

Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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UrgentJensen
Senior Itiler


Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 458
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viking - ham on a biscuit??

Next thing you'll be telling me is that peanut butter and jam should be put together. (shudder)

Skinnera that was an easy one though to be pedantic they 'go' hard or soft... Though I'm sure Viking's Gran could come up with something to contradict! Wink

UJ
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LizGallacher
Senior Itiler


Joined: Aug 31, 2005
Posts: 550
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that what the US calls biscuits, would resemble what we call scones , and the nearest thing they have to what we would call a biscuit is a cookie - which is soft. Nothing is ever simple!
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