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ITIL :: View topic - Confusion on CM process
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Confusion on CM process
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elewis33
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Additional clarification Reply with quote

elewis33 wrote:

On the other hand, our change manager believes that change requests are the mechanism that initiate projects. So he sees change management much higher up on the food chain, so to speak.


Quote:

Hogwash.

Of course RFCs can lead to projects. In fact they always lead to projects, but not necessarily explicitly calling them projects.

On the other hand, of course projects (from anywhere in the business) can require IT service changes and these would have to be requested from the project to IT Change Management.

So, you can think of this as a sub-project or a project stage or just as a work request from the project. Whatever is the best way to manage it.

For example, a service improvement initiative can lead to a project that will require changes of various things at various times, and intermediate verification activities to validate the outcomes.

Here is a quote from an email I received from our change manager yesterday.
Quote:
Change management is at the top of the IT food chain and should have executive level participation. Itís the process that approves which IT projects are implemented and allocates funding and resources to accomplish IT projects. It also controls changes made to CIís which range from switches and servers and desktop computers to the services that depend on those pieces of hardware and software and the people that run them (yes, people are considered CIís in the strict ITIL world). Anything thatís part of delivering a service is a CI. How far we want to take things is up to us. I vote for reason and common sense.

My only disagreement is with his first 2 sentences, although I'm having a hard time see the reason and common sense in some of his remarks.
Quote:

The idea of a hierarchy is absurd.

I agree. I see project management and change management going hand in hand. As a project manager I want to take advantage of the organization's change management process, so I can simply hook into an established and well ordered mechanism to move new CIs into place.

Earl


Last edited by elewis33 on Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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asrilrm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I completely disagree with the first and second sentences of the Change Manager's email. And I think they are completely misleading.

I think he needs to recurrent his ITIL knowledge
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elewis33
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asrilrm wrote:
Hi,

I completely disagree with the first and second sentences of the Change Manager's email. And I think they are completely misleading.

I think he needs to recurrent his ITIL knowledge

The sad thing is that he is currently attending training to get his ITIL Manager certificate. You'd think he would know what's going on. I think it's a case of not seeing the forest for the trees. He's too close to it and can't see the bigger picture of the organizational needs.
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asrilrm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Change Management is the gateway to changes in CMDB, but it doesn't mean that it regulates every chain activity. It's main task is to ensure that the necessary activities for changes are carried out and documented.
It is not, by any means, meant to be top of the food chain.

The second sentence, I think doesn't need to be discussed, is completely false.

Asril
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Diarmid
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

To be simplistic about it, Service Management is second to top in the IT food chain; customer requirement is top. IT Change Management is about nothing more than ensuring that changes are appropriate and are properly applied with IT services.

Change Management is a control process. It does not approve anything, it ensures that proposed changes have been approved. If it allocates funds for all projects, then it has a large budget (that's unusual) and it has strategic control of IT services (in your dreams).

I like "the strict ITIL world". Don't know what it means, but I like it.

In the logically stricter world of ISO20000, Change Management is defined as ensuring "that all changes are assessed, approved, implemented and reviewed in a controlled manner"

There is nothing in ITIL to support his position. On the other hand There is nothing in ITIL to stop him, although it would be less confusing if his job title was Head of IT Services rather than Change Manager.
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I've actually got nothing to do with this thread but just can't resist getting in on the action.

Your boss is bonkers. Sounds like he needs a holiday.

In the past I've put senior IT staff through ITIL training and seen their eyes glaze over. I don't know whether they just can't change their ols school mind set or they don't care...

ITIL Change Management is an operational level process. He's talking about business intiatives leading to projects and he's probably mangled that with the concept of Organisational Change Management and ITIL Change Management.

YOU MUST STOP HIM AT ALL COSTS, THE VERY FATE OF HUMANITY IS IN YOUR HANDS. Oh wait, no, that's Terminator.

UJ

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Skinnera
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, not uncommon (this misconception I mean, not Terminators).

In my org, there's a thing called 'Our Change Process' which is actually nothing to do with Change Management (well, apart from at the very end), but everything to do with the initiation and delivery of projects, and the guy who owns it gets irked every time I say I am Head of Change Management - because he believes he is!

We've agreed to not discuss it anymore, and leave it as an impasse. But come Judgement Day, it''ll be "Hasta la vista, baby!".

(see what I did there...? Evil or Very Mad )
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elewis33
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrgentJensen wrote:
Your boss is bonkers. Sounds like he needs a holiday.

Luckily, he's not my boss. I just have to put up with his distractions while I am getting real work done. Razz
Quote:

ITIL Change Management is an operational level process. He's talking about business intiatives leading to projects and he's probably mangled that with the concept of Organisational Change Management and ITIL Change Management.

YOU MUST STOP HIM AT ALL COSTS, THE VERY FATE OF HUMANITY IS IN YOUR HANDS. Oh wait, no, that's Terminator.

Exactly! Thank you. ITIL and it's change management process are about OPERATIONS! Projects, on the other hand, are how you initiate, design, test and implement significant additions or improvements to operations.

I think this is just gonna be one of those cases where he'll go on believing what he wants to believe, and I'll just have to let it go.

Earl
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asrilrm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

elewis33 wrote:
I think this is just gonna be one of those cases where he'll go on believing what he wants to believe, and I'll just have to let it go.

I'm afraid you'll have to clear this up once and for all.
Otherwise you'll be keeping an abscess on the butt
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys maybe I can offer a chink of light on this...

I have the same sort of problem at the moment where our Corp Risk & Complicance team are trying to sell 'Change Management' to the Execs and it's obviously caused me to try and clarify terminology, but they struggle because they've not yet learnt how to define 'service' in their minds.

Their idea is fundamentally on the right lines, but they're talking about managing the development of both business opportunites for growth and potential negative impacts like heavy losses and downsizing etc. Not specifically just for IT.

Turning this stuff into well organised programmes of work and projects below that is the ultimate goal - we're a very IT heavy business and yet IT is often not included in project intitiation and planning. This I find remarkable in a very prominent financial organisation. So I totally back them that something has to be done.

But they're still trying to sell 'Change Management' and it has been getting frustrating for me recently.

Then, out of the blue, one of the senior business-side Ops managers (who had been involved in developing the 'business change' stuff) comes over to my desk and asks if he could borrow my ITIL V3 books. He didn't say why and I didn't ask because I kinda new the lights were switching on for him.

So you have to be diplomatic, but I think you need to persist. If you haven't already then do the V3 foundation or at least get the books because that differentiates strategy from ops clearly and it's easier to explain to the 'parents' how it all fits together.

Hasta la Pasta

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elewis33
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrgentJensen wrote:
Guys maybe I can offer a chink of light on this...

So you have to be diplomatic, but I think you need to persist. If you haven't already then do the V3 foundation or at least get the books because that differentiates strategy from ops clearly and it's easier to explain to the 'parents' how it all fits together.


I appreciate the insight. I have my v2 foundation certificate already. Not really interested in the v3 stuff just yet. Interestingly, our change manager is currently being trained in v3 so I guess I'm surprised that he has confusion about this. Well, OK, I'm not really that surprised. He's just trying to carve out his piece of the world I suppose. Nonetheless, it is a bit disconcerting watching him plow through meetings causing so much confusion and frustration for so many people.

Thanks again for the comments.

Earl
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