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Department Organisation

 
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Number3
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Department Organisation Reply with quote

I have currently taken on a new role to oversee ITIL implementation within a large IT company providng SLA services to customers. They are currently not using any ITIL processes though have a very good ITIL "alligned" (notice I did not say compliant Smile ) system - Wendias POB (Point of Business). This is a great system from what I have seen and is Pink Elephant certified to support 14 ITIL processes. The great shame is that they are not using for any of them Sad

But anyway back to my point. Myself and the organisation Manager (I say organisation as it consists of very many departments) are tasked with improving support services. Under his guidance are like I said many departments all staff of which report directly to him. This is about 100 people. We are in both agreement this needs some "area" heads to provide a bit of a gap - otherwise the PDPs are going to take him all year!

My question is essentially has anyone any experience/or heard of departments being structured around ITILv3 lifecycle components. i.e Design, Transition, Operation etc.

In my mind the newly vamped organisation would look something like this:

SERVICE DESIGN:
Service Level Managers
SLA Administrators
Contract/Supplier Managers

SERVICE TRANSITION:
Configuration Manager
SLA Purchasing and CI Additions
Pre-SLM Adminstrators (not sure about this one...)

SERVICE OPERATION:
Engineers
Service Desk + Incident Manager
Service Desk Dispatchers
Problem Manager
Pro-Active & Monitoring Teams


Each "area" will have a manager or responsible who is to provide statistical/report data/CSI plus day-to-day management of there respective teams.

I think it works quite well as it seems logical and easy to see how a customer flows from sales and finally into operations.

any opinions?

Thanks in advance
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why use the topics in the book to create business departments

Instead use the 6th book of the V3 to do this

That aside

i dont see change or release mgmt

the prime dept is an operational department -

service desk
platform service support (wintel, unix)
communication service support ( VOIP, network, telco, etc)
facilities support (data center, PBX, patch panels etc, offices)

IT application service support- active directory, exhcnage, notes, etc

then you would have a service delivery like department with the added benefit of stategic teams as well
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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Number3
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a reason that you dont see Change/Release Management and that is that all internal IT is outsourced to another company, and that overall mangement of engineering/testing is comes under Regions rather than our specific departments.

The Service Desk will have 1st line teams specifc to our customer needs (Cisco HP etc) but will not handle any internal requests due to the above.

I will check out the 6th Book. Thanks for your comments
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asrilrm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

You outsource all your internal IT to another company but what about your customer's IT stuff? Are they also outsourced as well?

You said that you are going to have Conf. Mgmt but what is your configuration going to be look like? How are you going to manage your configuration if the Change/Release is outsourced?
I know that you can pin your provider with the underpinning contract but how is it going to be across changes in a daily basis?

I think you need to have a Change Management Process no matter how small it is. Remember, you can outsource all your IT but at the frontline, it is you who deal with your customers, internal and external.

Cheers,
Asril
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Number3
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
Why use the topics in the book to create business departments

Instead use the 6th book of the V3 to do this



When you wrote this I assumed that you were refering to the 6th Chapter of the Service Strategy book and had simply made a typo. But now I have read a load more posts on here and realise that this seems to be your templated gag to hand out to dum questions.

Which made me wonder, were you being sarcastic here? and therefore by chance did it backfire as the 6th chapter is actually relevant to what we were talking about OR were you genuinely trying to be helpful by providing some useful experienced feedback?

Curiousity killed my cat.
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satisfaction brought the cat back though

It was of course the templated gag (miscellaneous forum)

Please feel free to add a few chapters to the book - using what you are doing

We have to have a laugh once in a while

Your question ... while not entirely dumb... conveys a misinterpretation of what ITIL is

ITIL is best practice for implementing, managing etc IT It is not a business structure document etc

If you want to organize your departments based on ITIL.. do so because it makes sense for your business. .... not because you want to adhere to ITIL

Service Operations - for one is a good name for a department

Service transition / strategy... Continual Service Improvement etc may not be

Myself - I would have the Service Design and Transition team together in a Service Management organization broken into sub teams / departments

it just depends.

Dont try to use ITIL as the excuse to re-organize.. Use a better reason to reorganize
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Change Management is POWER & CONTROL. /....evil laughter
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Number3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That it did! Smile

Personally I didnt think my question was "dumb" as you put it. Plus I agree that you should have a reason to re-organise and not ITIL. The reason lies between we are in effect a "company of operations" operating in itsself despite being part of a large IT company. So we have lots of tiny little departments all reporting to one person. We wanted to break the chain up a bit to allow a few more "improvement initatives" be started.

Personally I think it works, and like you say it makes sense to have Transition teams and Design teams near to each other.

I all wanted was some opnions other than my own. Maybe it was "dumb" to expect that on a forum?

Rolling Eyes Cool
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Number3
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asrilrm wrote:
Hi,

You outsource all your internal IT to another company but what about your customer's IT stuff? Are they also outsourced as well?

You said that you are going to have Conf. Mgmt but what is your configuration going to be look like? How are you going to manage your configuration if the Change/Release is outsourced?
I know that you can pin your provider with the underpinning contract but how is it going to be across changes in a daily basis?

I think you need to have a Change Management Process no matter how small it is. Remember, you can outsource all your IT but at the frontline, it is you who deal with your customers, internal and external.

Cheers,
Asril


Internal IT is outsourced. Support of Customers IT infrastructures is handled by the company. We are an IT services provider. A large one.

The company has a Change Management process, and we are planning to implement a Change process for our customers. Well essentially a Release process as it will the customers asking us to implement changes in their own networks.

As for Configuration Management, this is a tricky one. As all the CIs in the CMDB are the customers, and the fact that we really arent involved in their internal changes all the time, it will be hard to keep it close to up to date. Essentially it is being used to track items which are on the contract for support.

but the essentials of Con. Mgmt are the same. Data gathering, Audits, Updates, links with other processes etc.
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UKVIKING
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number3

You got an opinion or two about your question - that is what you should expect

the problem in answering your question completely is that you would have to expand on a lot of information that you may well should not expand on

A IT department should be organized in such a way that it makes sense to the company that is part of

if you have outsourced parts - you MUST have some one who is the primary point of contact between the company and the outsource. A vendor mgmt team is msut

Even if the IT helpdesk is staffed with contractors, the IT helpdesk is part of the company

As to the sixth book, // shrug.// instead of ripping into people when they ask 'dumb', silly or specious questions (my standards) and being a class A GoG, I am trying to impart a little humor (no U as I am a Yank in John Bull land) instead

sigh.. cant seem to please everyone

BTW: Your topic / quesstion would make a great chapter in the 6th book
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Diarmid
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Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number3,

I am a little confused. you provide IT services to customers, but you don't manage their infrastructure.

You say you provide SLA services; do you mean you manage or monitor or report on SLAs or do you mean you have SLAs for your services?

There is a manger with 100 direct reports (!!!!); is that in the customer organization or your own.

You want/are required to develop formal Service Management; is that for your services or your customers' services?

Your customer performs his own Change Management and commissions you to implement changes, but you say he has no ITIL processes; Change Management is an ITIL process.

You want to do Configuration Management, but you do not have an infrastructure to configure?

Here's what I think:

1. Whenever I see an organization structured explicitly to a theoretical model for something other than an organization (the ITIL model is about service management functions, not structures), I get suspicious that all is not well. It suggests to me that there is too little understanding of what the organization is and what its purpose is. Such models inhibit real-life adjustments. Or, when you modify your structure to accommodate real-life requirements, then confusion sets in because it still looks superficially like the model.

2. The only way to develop a viable organization structure is by detailed analysis of the requirements, objectives, functions, constraints and other contextual factors.

3. Asking advice from people who do not have this analysis is a waste of time at best. Taking advice people who do not have this analysis is almost guaranteed to make your situation worse. Even if someone has a superficially similar experience, there is little likelihood that of it being relevant to you.

4. If you are not confident of your own analysis, then you require in-depth assistance from someone experienced in the design of organization structures in an IT Services context.
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Number3
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diarmid wrote:
Number3,

I am a little confused. you provide IT services to customers, but you don't manage their infrastructure.

You say you provide SLA services; do you mean you manage or monitor or report on SLAs or do you mean you have SLAs for your services?

There is a manger with 100 direct reports (!!!!); is that in the customer organization or your own.

You want/are required to develop formal Service Management; is that for your services or your customers' services?

Your customer performs his own Change Management and commissions you to implement changes, but you say he has no ITIL processes; Change Management is an ITIL process.

You want to do Configuration Management, but you do not have an infrastructure to configure?

Here's what I think:

1. Whenever I see an organization structured explicitly to a theoretical model for something other than an organization (the ITIL model is about service management functions, not structures), I get suspicious that all is not well. It suggests to me that there is too little understanding of what the organization is and what its purpose is. Such models inhibit real-life adjustments. Or, when you modify your structure to accommodate real-life requirements, then confusion sets in because it still looks superficially like the model.

2. The only way to develop a viable organization structure is by detailed analysis of the requirements, objectives, functions, constraints and other contextual factors.

3. Asking advice from people who do not have this analysis is a waste of time at best. Taking advice people who do not have this analysis is almost guaranteed to make your situation worse. Even if someone has a superficially similar experience, there is little likelihood that of it being relevant to you.

4. If you are not confident of your own analysis, then you require in-depth assistance from someone experienced in the design of organization structures in an IT Services context.


Ok let me try to clarify. firstly lets start by forgetting the traditional Internal IT Management view that ITIL takes. Lets assume correctly that the Servicedesk and support (1st/2nd) are outsourced.

The internal IT and how that is managed is all part of another department for which I am not involved nor at this stage want to be.

My department is responsible for the management of various types of service to EXTERNAL customers. These services include:

Reactive Services (Incidents, Replacement of spare parts etc - all to defined SLAs)
Proactive Services (Monitoring, Proactive Maintenance and Reporting)
Outsourcing - (Half outsouced Servicedesk (we are their servicedesk) or complete White label outsourcing)

so we have a Customer facing Servicedesk which does not touch internal stuff what so ever. They are responsible for Incident Management of customer incidents. they also get calls from customer wishing to plan a change of a spare part (change Management).

In order to support these SLA based services, we have many different departments, namely:

A Servicedesk
A Disptach group
Engineers
Supplier Management
Purchasing
Service Level managers
Sales
Administrators etc

They all report into the same person. Therefore my original point was my idea about structuring all these different areas under 4 key managers -each responsible for a different lifecycle area. As within our department the customer goes from sales, SLA creation, input of SLA into systems, maintenance etc. therefore to me, it seemed logical to split the department into

Service Sales
Service Design
Service Transition
Service Operation

All 4 of which taking responsibility for CSI activities, as well as now the main manager having only four key reports. In addition to this there is an ITSM Team, with a process designer, communications person, statistics person and system developer.

We have a fantastic system which supports 14 ITIL processes none of which we are using today. we have a CMDB in the system used to store CI information of the equipment which is under the Support contracts. As well as the SLAs and a Service Catalog.

We do Change Management for customers (we change things on their behalf - although in my mind this is Release Management as we are not involved in the authorising or planning - simply the building and testing of changes.)

I am I making it clearer? I hope so. Point taken on some of your other points, not all but some. Smile
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Number3
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UKVIKING wrote:
Number3

You got an opinion or two about your question - that is what you should expect

the problem in answering your question completely is that you would have to expand on a lot of information that you may well should not expand on

A IT department should be organized in such a way that it makes sense to the company that is part of

if you have outsourced parts - you MUST have some one who is the primary point of contact between the company and the outsource. A vendor mgmt team is msut

Even if the IT helpdesk is staffed with contractors, the IT helpdesk is part of the company

As to the sixth book, // shrug.// instead of ripping into people when they ask 'dumb', silly or specious questions (my standards) and being a class A GoG, I am trying to impart a little humor (no U as I am a Yank in John Bull land) instead

sigh.. cant seem to please everyone

BTW: Your topic / quesstion would make a great chapter in the 6th book


no hard feelings. reading some of your other posts has in fact made me smile a lot.
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Diarmid
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Number3,

you have a complex situation especially, if I read you aright, with multiple separate customers.

If all you do is Servicedesk and support (1st/2nd), then you are not performing IT service management, but rather some components of it.

From your customers perspective, it is in their interest to develop a comprehensive service management quality system into which your components are integrated to a certain degree. This would require you to deliver your services to meet their specification.

From your perspective you have to develop a flexible management system for your service activities so that you can effectively resource and respond to each and all of your customers' needs. Therefore the primary focus of your management system is the maintenance and development of your business, not any individual customer's service.

Clearly it makes sense to divide management functions to achieve effective reporting span. However modelling your structure as if you were providing full IT service delivery has some drawbacks. The first is that it is an artificial accommodation. A second is that it can lead to confusion as to roles, scope and especially goals or objectives.

Although you may well benefit from a configuration management database, covering all your activities, you have to be very careful not to confuse it with the CMDB each of your customers should have for their IT Service Management system.

A primary consideration in determining your organizational structure could be how you conduct service review with customers. If, as I suspect different customers use different components of your service offerings, then you have to retain the flexibility to review components independently and that may have implications for how responsibility and authority are assigned and how your resources are managed.

I think you should take your own advice "by forgetting the traditional Internal IT Management view that ITIL takes" and design your structure to meet your business model.
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UrgentJensen
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't be bothered to read the whole thread, but you really have to have a legion of evil robots. They're all the rage right now, very Spring/Summer 09.

And maybe they could be all be dressed in black, black is very 'in' this year whereas silver is SO 2002 - god, you don't want them looking like recycled WV Polos.

UJ
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