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ITIL :: View topic - Can a procedure have sub-procedures within it?
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Can a procedure have sub-procedures within it?

 
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brentfraser
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Joined: Feb 20, 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Can a procedure have sub-procedures within it? Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am defining the documentation structure for our organization (we don't have a consistent one) and I am using ITIL definitions along with the ISO documentation pyramid. My question is if a process can have sub-processes within it? Also, I want to ensure that each document is named correctly. There is a bit of "fuzz" around document type names here. We have procedures that don't contain any details on how to do something and it contains all high level information.

Here's an example which might shed some light:

We have an Estimating Process that contains many smaller procedures within it. Inside the Estimating Process, we have the following:
- Prepare Estimating Preparation Plan procedure
- Prepare Estimating Basis procedure
- Create Estimate procedure
- Revise Estimate procedure
- Present Estimate

My questions are:
- should the high level document (Estimating Process) be called a process or is it indeed a procedure with four sub-procedures?
- We have a document that outlines the high-level workings of the estimating department (roles, responsibilities, tools, goals). What should this document be named? In looking at the ITIL v3 definitions, this document could/should be named a process but if this is a process, what do I call the one document above?

Thank you to anyone that might be able to shed some light on this. It is much appreciated!

Brent Fraser
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 1884
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A procedure is the documented way of performing a process. A process is not a document.

You can have procedures, sub-procedures and work instructions as you see fit.

Processes can have sub-processes, but procedures are the things you work with and yo can have many procedures for one process.

A document that outlines roles, responsibilities, tools and goals is not a procedure of any sort. I would think of it as four sections of the Quality Manual or as four documents related to the Quality Manual.

I have my ISO9000 hat on for this question, not my ITIL one, because ITIL does not care how you organise your quality system, just that you have one.
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"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
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brentfraser
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Joined: Feb 20, 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the replies.

Diarmid, what would you then call the document that outlines roles, responsibilities, tools and goals? Looking at the four tiers in the ISO Pyramid, would it be a "Standard Operating Procedure?"

We are all over the map here with our documentation and I would like to define a structure that is ISO compliant (we are an ISO registered company). Right now we have procedures that don't tell you how to do something and we have process documents (which you say aren't documents).

Thanks again for your help.

Brent
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UKVIKING
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Joined: Sep 16, 2006
Posts: 3305
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brent

There is a vast difference between advice and opinion - which is free - and consulting services.

This forum nor Diarmid has not been hired to provide consulting services in order for you to acheive what you need to have done

He has provided you his opinion and his advice

You seem to need specifics and direction and all that - which I see as consulting

Hire Diarmid.. he is reasonably priced. That way 1- you get a professional and b) you dont air your dirty laundry in a public forum

But that is my opinion / advice which is diametrically opposed to consluting
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Diarmid
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Joined: Mar 04, 2008
Posts: 1884
Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the 100% risk of repeating myself I would call it the quality manual. It is not a procedural document.

ISO is not a standard but a body that creates and manages international standards. When you say "ISO" which particular standard do you mean of the many that exist?

Like John said, email me.
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"Method goes far to prevent trouble in business: for it makes the task easy, hinders confusion, saves abundance of time, and instructs those that have business depending, both what to do and what to hope."
William Penn 1644-1718
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